full image - Repost: Bootcamp Vs Degree: From someone who did a bootcamp and now pursuing a degree (from Reddit.com, Bootcamp Vs Degree: From someone who did a bootcamp and now pursuing a degree)
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TLDR: If possible, GO TO SCHOOL. Bootcamps are expensive gambles. If you really insist on doing a bootcamp, you must be ABSOLUTELY sure that the specific bootcamp you attend will set you up for success.Couple things though before I start. I am male, live in the U.S., and currently in my early 30’s. I understand that not everyone gets the opportunities I get. But I just wanted to give my personal experience with my CS journey so far and perhaps it pertains to you as well.I wanted to give my insight on people who may be thinking of joining a bootcamp or for those who are on the fence about going back to school. Most things here are nothing new, but just thought I’d add my input as someone who actually has done both in a consolidated post. Just like many of you, I was drawn in to a bootcamp by the promises of saved time and money I’ve read and heard about. I mentioned this part in a comment on another post. After completing a bootcamp, I can tell you that in my cohort, only about 20% of students are doing anything tech related today. Out of those 20%, majority of them already had technical degrees or experience. So in reality, less than 10% were people were people who were looking for a complete career change with limited programming experience. This is all from Linkedin and perhaps there are a couple more people who did make it and are not updating their profiles. But the fact that so many people aren’t working a programming job to this day should be alarming given that we all spent a good chunk of change with aspirations to break it in the field. I understand not every bootcamp is like this, and perhaps some are very successful. But wanted to mention this is an outcome that could happen in the one you join. Overall, I wanted to lay out reasons why people want to do a bootcamp, and why I think school is a good better choice if you are on the fence it.Why people want to do bootcamps and cases against them:1) Cost: It’s dramatically cheaper to do a bootcamp right? In reality, I don’t think so. Bootcamps range from 10k to 20k. For most of us, if we are investing that much money on anything else, wouldn’t we expect more guaranteed return (unless we degenerates on the stock market lol)? The certificate itself doesn’t hold much value, and I already mentioned in my particular bootcamp, only about 20% made it. But say you join a bootcamp that even 50% make it. 20k to spend on something that you have a coinflip chance of an opportunity? I’m not a true fan of those odds either. I doubt 50% of the people in the bootcamp were just lazy, especially since we dropped a shit ton of money to do it.Now the case for school when it comes to cost. Given how expensive bootcamps can get these days, I think it’s more worth it to spend up a bit more for a degree that companies will still give more value to. There are also things you can do like start out at a community college and then transfer to your local state school to save money. In my situation, I am pursuing my masters. I wasn’t a CS undergrad, so I had to take some undergrad courses before beginning my graduate courses. I would say overall this degree will cost me bout 30k. But one thing to keep in mind are internship opportunities. You can generally only qualify for internships if you are pursuing a degree (at least in the U.S). This can help offset the cost AND get your foot in the door. I got an internship over the past summer that paid about 32K (Including housing comp. I had a friend who lived near the internship. He gave me a major discount on rent so I got to pocket most of it). This came out to be over 24k after taxes for 10 weeks of work, maybe a little less if the housing comp gets taxed. This was NOT at a MANGA company. Just a typical large company. I believe the more competitive tech companies will pay you even more. But as you can see, I paid off a huge chunk of school with the summer internship. I was also offered a spot for a job for after I graduate, but I wanted to explore one more internship first at a tech company before I commit to anything. The networking and relationships I built were also very valuable. Also, since I didn’t work last year (this is a caveat, I know not everyone can do this), I received a grant that pretty much paid for 70% of this years tuition. Something to think about as well.2) Learning in demand skills without the fluff: Argument is that instead of wasting years of more senseless theory courses, you are getting right to the source technology that will get you job ready. IMO, the information goes way too fast for most people. You won’t be able to grasp most of it to be job ready. If you don’t have any programing experience before, you are really trying to learn three major concepts at once: learning the basics of your first language, learning programming fundamentals, and learning a specific technology. I’m probably missing something in between, but you get the idea. In school, you probably spend about 2 years getting down the first 2 concepts. Even then, students struggle at schools. So imagine trying to get all three of those down in 3 to 6 months. You really aren’t going to and are probably going to be weak in one or more of those concepts. In reality, not many people can actually grasp everything. It has nothing to do with how capable you are to learn programming. Most of us just aren’t built to succeed in a situation like this. If you aren’t the type of person who was able to learn fast and just grind everyday to meet your goals, don’t expect that to change just because you join the bootcamp. It’s just not enough time for most people to be able to stay completely focused and actually absorb all the information.3) Time: Besides cost, this is probably the biggest one. Some of you guys have families to take care of or other responsibilities where you only have a short window to sacrifice. When it comes to time, can’t really argue. However, if you are doing a 3 month bootcamp, you will have to quit your job and spend every single day committed to the camp. At the end of it, nothing is guaranteed. If you do a 6 month bootcamp, sure you can still work. But you are still sacrificing every weekend and every hour you’re not working. All that mental energy and time on top of work for something that is not guaranteed. I understand that a degree also doesn’t guarantee anything, but I doubt you will have difficulty finding a job eventually. In the case of my bootcamp, 80% have not found a programming job 4 years later. There is no “eventually finding a job”. When you get a degree, you always got the foundations to learn thing on your own quickly and the clout of the degree. I know one student who was bragging about how he got his first job doing the bare minimum in school. To me, it was really nothing to brag about given that if applied himself at school, he’d make twice that even if it’s not a top tech company. But when you go to a bootcamp, you are competing against many 4 year university students for these jobs and they will be hard to get. Another student I got acquainted with at my school has a 2 year old son. He works during the day and takes night classes. I’m rooting for his ass so hard since I can’t even comprehend the responsibilities of having a family. But at the same time, it seems like he is taking it slow and will ramp up his studies during the tail end of his education. He sees the overall value of the education even though it will take time.Degree is truly not an option:I get it. Even if these are good cases to pursue a degree, you still might be in an impossible situation and can’t commit to a 4 year university or a shorter masters program. At the end, it is still technically cheaper and takes way less time. Then you better make damn sure you know all about the bootcamp you are joining. Talk to actual people who know who have completed the EXACT bootcamp you are interested in RECENT TIMES, not like 5 years ago. Know their backgrounds as well. How extensive was their network already? What kind of experience did they already have? Are you in a similar situation as these successful people? Also, make sure it’s the same exact bootcamp and teacher that taught the successful cohort. A bootcamp brand can be good in Chicago but terrible in Los Angeles. Within the bootcamp, the teacher can make or break your experience. This is VERY VERY important. Make sure they really do care about you succeeding and provide you with many resources and opportunities to make it. If after you researched all that, really REALLY make sure you are ready to do the bootcamp. It’s pretty rough, and you may think this time you will try hard once in your life. But be very realistic about who you are as a person. Don’t expect to have an epiphany to turn your life around just because you joined this bootcamp.Final thoughts:If you are serious about this career, you’re better of going all in and getting a degree to dramatically increase your chances of success. If it’s a cost issue, I would really look into how much it will cost to do things like going to a community college first and transferring vs bootcamp. Or if you already have a degree, maybe look into a masters program. Keep in mind that there will be a chance to get a paid internship that will help offset the cost and possibly save you a spot for a job for when you graduate. If it’s a time issue, truly think about whether you have to be job ready in 6 months or if you are just getting drawn into the advertisements. Perhaps think of taking your education slower. Try studying on your own first. Maybe take a programming course at your local CC and see if you even like programming. It would still be cheaper than just committing to a bootcamp blindly. Worst case, you find that you don’t enjoy programming for a fairly low cost and time commitment. Best case, it can now be credited toward a degree.Finally, just wanted to say I really hope you all succeed which ever route you take. Be aware though that even if you pursue a degree, you will still have to be on top of your shit. Personal projects, networking, and studying interview questions are still very important and can make your experience more worth it. I obviously have high bias toward school. But the core idea is that I just don’t want you guys to blindly jump into something that takes a fairly large commitment without truly exploring all options available. Good luck out there!
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